An Argument for the Viability of Soy as a primary protein source

[Narkissos]

An Argument for the Viability of Soy as a primary protein source

by Corey Springer aka "Narkissos"

Orginally posted here: http://www.getnarked.net/forum/index.php?topic=2506.0


Ok... I'm about to rant. I may or may not reference my claims at the end.

Bear with me... I just saw this pic on bodybuilding.com and it sent me into a frenzy!




Review the image above...especially the statement to which the arrow is pointing.

To those who cannot view the image, it reads: "The only downfall, is the exclusion of egg protein, and the fact that soy can give males the female looking pec syndrome".

How many times have you heard this yourself?

"Soy protein should be avoided by males...simply because it is oestrogenic... i.e. it'll make you grow tits".

Amazing then, that there're vegetarian bodybuilders out there, shredded to the bone...who use soy as their sole protein source.

Amazing, in that soy, being so oestrogenic, must surely encourage female-pattern fat deposition and a myriad of other conditions.

Mustn't it?

It's scaremongering.

My advice?

Don't buy the scaremongering.



The Discussion:

There are numerous phytochemicals in Soy.

Some are oestrogenic...some aren't.

With specific reference to the oestrogenic compounds:

You are honestly more at risk of oestrogen-related physiological change from environmental estrogens like those used in the production of plastics.

As mentioned above, some of these compounds aren't oestrogenic.

There are some of these phytochemicals which normalise the hormonal environment: adaptogenic compounds.

Soy protein itself is very versatile.

Let me reiterate: Soy is very versatile.

This isn't with specific reference to how it can be consumed. For the purpose of this argument, I am referring to its role in the bodybuilding lifestyle.

This is increasingly apparent while dieting..as its relatively high BCAA content, especially the leucine content, have a distinct protein-sparing effect.

Soy isoflavones, specifically the nonestrogenic ligands which bind the estrogen-related receptors, contribute to the lipolytic effect.(1)

Some argue that it increases thyroid output, but the jury is out on that claim.(2)

Anyway, as I was saying: The protein-sparing and lypolitic influences are especially important when metabolism stagnates during a caloric restriction phase.

Add soy's ability to decrease oxidative stress(3) to the mix, and you have one all-round great supplemental addition.



Oestrogenic Activity:

The correlation drawn between the potential estrogenicity of soy stems from the use of soy's phytoestrogen as a form of oestro-HRT for females.

The fact of the matter is the 'phytoestrogens' marketed for females are misnomered.

'Adaptogens' would be a better term for the spectrum... as the activity is akin to such.

Sure, some of the phytonutrients are estrogenic in nature... but just like the anti-estrogenic compounds in cruciferous vegetables, the amount of the byproduct one'd have to consume to be affected negates the possibility of being so affected.

Think about it.

How many hundreds of pounds of soy do you think goes into each bottle of HRT-'phytoestrogens'?

You are more at risk with regard to environmental estrogens.. as these are more pervasive, more destructive...and unavoidable.

Personally i consume a lot of soy..and when it's in my diet i get harder by the day.

I can attest to its benefits.

Soy-containing protein blends have been my mainstay for years.

In fact, at this very moment I'm consuming oats cooked with soy protein.

I've found that soy gets me very very hard... muscularly.

No water retention etc.

Which is VERY interesting.. as pundits would suggest that the oestrogenic factions would promote female pattern fat deposition etc...exacerbated by my body's naturally high estrogen levels (due to high aromatase activity).

However... no water.. ever (as long as soy is administered...)



Conclusion:
Adaptogens... remember the term from above?

These phytochemicals in soy normalize the hormonal environment.

Consider my hormonal matrix 'normalized'.

-CNS
Owner of: Apollo Fitness Barbados
& "The Narkside": The Caribbean's Premier Fitness Forum


References:
1. Ricketts ML, Moore DD, Banz WJ, Mezei O, Shay NF.Molecular mechanisms of action of the soy isoflavones includes activation of promiscuous nuclear receptors.J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Jun;16(6):321-30.
2. Messina M, Redmond G. "Effects of soy protein and soybean isoflavones on thyroid function in healthy adults and hypothyroid patients: a review of the relevant literature." 2006 Mar;16(3):249-58.
3. Azadbakht L, Kimiagar M, Mehrabi Y, Esmaillzadeh A, Hu FB, Willett WC. Dietary soya intake alters plasma antioxidant status and lipid peroxidation in postmenopausal women with the metabolic syndrome. Br J Nutr. 2007 Oct;98(4):807-13. Epub 2007 May 17



Copyright ©2007-2008 Apollo Fitness Barbados

[CYCLEON]

With some of the newer stuff that has very high bio availablity and the ever rising prices of milk based protein I may give it a try on my next bag

[MrMondo]

Soy is a very good and very versatile source of solid protein....

Nice Rant....

So....If I do get female pecs and I play with them, am I gay?

[Narkissos]

^^lol.. Very.

Cyc i hope you don't mind me putting my articles in this specific forum.

-CNS

[Shredz]

Great read. I have heard the gyno theory of soy so many times. Don't know if I can get myself to actually drink soy milk but I after reading this post I will try a soy based protein powder.

[CYCLEON]

I think the real problem is bio availability - soy has historically been pretty poor at that - most stuff gives me as much gas and bloating as milk - but there have been a lot of improvements

[Hardcore]

Interesting stuff nark. As always anyone can learn something from any of your posts.

[Narkissos]

Originally Posted by CYCLEON

I think the real problem is bio availability - soy has historically been pretty poor at that - most stuff gives me as much gas and bloating as milk - but there have been a lot of improvements

That's generally been the case with the cheap soy proteins of times past.

People tend to have long memories about such.

According to the Benamouzig et. al. study of 1999 however, soy's bioavailability is 92% that of milk protein.[1]

In this study:

Oro-ileal digestibility of SPI nitrogen was 91%. The amount of absorbed SPI amino acids used for nonoxidative disposal, i.e., postprandial biological value, was 86% 8 h after meal ingestion. Hence, net postprandial protein utilization of SPI was 78%. Compared to previous data that were assessed under the same condition in humans, the nutritional value of SPI is 92% of that in milk protein concentrate.

Thus, i do not believe digestibility is an issue.

I myself get less issues with soy than i get with whey...

This applies even to whey deemed 'lactose-free'.



-CNS



References:

1. Benamouzig et. al. Nutritional Value of [15N]-Soy Protein Isolate Assessed from Ileal Digestibility and Postprandial Protein Utilization in Humans. Journal of Nutrition. 1999;129:1992-1997.

[Juggernaut]

The only time one should worry about the use of soy is when a women is pregnant and carrying a male child. Other than that period during a males lifespan one shouldn't worry about using soy as a source of protein.

I can't remember where I read it but it was a university study of soy protin usage and pregnant women that I'm baseing this information. I remember posting something about this subject back when Diesel's wife was pregnant and he opened a thread about it.

[Grassroots]

Nark, I've always respected you and have been impressed with your transformation. I don't post often, but I wanted to in this thread as I have been looking into soy as the price of whey goes up. I have eaten Kashi in the mornings with my egg whites/cottage cheese, but have all but stopped eating soy protein. I think the concept that it "makes you grow tits" is stupid, but I will pass in favor of milk or egg protein. I will post these just to play devil's advocate, how much significance would this be to your endocrine system? Not sure, but I would steer clear of using it Pre or PWO

Clinical and biological activity of soy protein powder supplementation in healthy male volunteers.
Goodin S, Shen F, Shih WJ, Dave N, Kane MP, Medina P, Lambert GH, Aisner J, Gallo M, DiPaola RS.

Department of Medicine, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey/Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, New Brunswick, NJ 08903-2681, USA. goodin@umdnj.edu

PURPOSE: To determine if a commonly used soy protein supplement exhibits biological activity in vivo and in vitro, we evaluated an over-the-counter soy protein powder supplement using blood from healthy male volunteers and in an estrogen receptor in vitro assay. SUBJECTS AND METHODS: We recruited healthy male volunteers 18 years of age or older that were in good health. Treatment consisted of consuming two scoops (56 g) of pure soy protein powder (Puritan's Pride, Oakdale, NY) daily for 28 days. Serum testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels were collected on days -7, 0, 14, and 28 of therapy, and day 42. A reporter estrogen receptor (ER) assay was used to determine the effect on ER-beta and ER-alpha in vitro. RESULTS: Twelve subjects were enrolled with a mean age of 32.25 years (range 25 to 47). Serum testosterone decreased 19%(+/-22%) during the 4-week use of soy protein powder (P = 0.021) and increased within 2 weeks after we discontinued soy protein powder. Serum LH concentrations decreased during the 4-week use of soy protein powder then increased within 2 weeks after we stopped the soy protein powder, but the changes did not reach statistical significance (P = 0.20). Soy protein powder was found to induce agonist activity to ER-beta using a reporter estrogen receptor assay in yeast. CONCLUSION: Soy protein powder decreases serum testosterone levels in healthy men and acts as an ER-beta agonist; the significance of this biological effect with respect to cancer prevention needs further study.

PMID: 17416779

Soy Foods Are Associated With Lower Sperm Concentrations

ScienceDaily (July 24, 2008) — Men who eat an average of half a serving of soy food a day have lower concentrations of sperm than men who do not eat soy foods, according to new research. The association was particularly marked in men who were overweight or obese, the study found.

In the largest study in humans to examine the relationship between semen quality and phytoestrogens (plant compounds that can behave like the hormone, oestrogen), Dr Jorge Chavarro, a research fellow in the department of nutrition at Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, USA, and his colleagues found that men who ate the most soy food had 41 million sperm per millilitre less than men who did not consume soy products. (The "normal" sperm concentration for men ranges between 80-120 million/ml).

Isoflavones (daidzein, genistein and glycitein) are plant-derived compounds with oestrogenic effects that are found mainly in soy beans and soy-derived products. Animal studies have linked the high consumption of isoflavones with infertility in animals, but so far there has been little evidence of their effect in humans.

Dr Chavarro and his colleagues analysed the intake of 15 soy-based foods in 99 men who had attended a fertility clinic with their partners to be evaluated for sub-fertility between 2000 and 2006. They asked them how often and how much they had eaten in the previous three months; the foods included tofu, tempeh, tofu or soy sausages, bacon, burgers and mince, soy milk, cheese, yoghurt and ice cream, and other soy products such as roasted nuts, drinks, powders and energy bars.

Different foods have different levels of isoflavones in them, and so the researchers related the size of the serving to the particular food. For instance, a standard serving of tofu was 115g and for soy milk it was one cup (240 millilitres).

The men were divided into four groups according to their intake of soy foods and isoflavones. After adjusting for factors such as age, abstinence time, body mass index (BMI), alcohol and caffeine intake and smoking, Dr Chavarro found that men in the highest intake category had, on average, 41 million sperm/ml less than men who did not eat soy foods. "Men in the highest intake group had a mean soy food intake of half a serving per day: in terms of their isoflavone content that is comparable to having one cup of soy milk or one serving of tofu, tempeh or soy burgers every other day," he said.

"It is important to highlight that the figure of half a serving a day is the average intake for men in the highest intake group. Some men in this group had intakes of soy foods as high as nearly four servings per day."

The researchers found evidence that the association between soy food intake and sperm concentrations were stronger in men who were overweight or obese (and 72% of them were). They also found the relationship between soy foods and sperm concentration was strongest in men with the higher sperm concentrations. "The implication is that men who have normal or high sperm counts may be more susceptible to soy foods than men with low sperm counts, but this remains to be evaluated," explained Dr Chavarro.

The study does not reveal why soy foods have this effect on sperm, but Dr Chavarro speculates that increased oestrogenic activity may have an adverse effect on the production of sperm by interfering with other hormonal signals. This effect could be strengthened further in overweight and obese men because men with high levels of body fat produce more oestrogen than slimmer men, leading to high overall levels of oestrogen in the body and reproductive organs.

Soy foods are the most important source of phytoestrogens in people in the Western world, and the researchers say they were able to comprehensively assess the men's soy intake. They did not assess intake of isoflavones from other sources, such as bakery products made with soy flour. "However, the most likely effect of not assessing intake of these foods is that the associations reported in this study are attenuated," said Dr Chavarro.

The researchers say that the clinical significance of their research remains to be determined, and further randomised trials are needed.


Journal reference:

1. Jorge E. Chavarro , Thomas L. Toth , Sonita M. Sadio , and Russ Hauser. Soy food and isoflavone intake in relation to semen quality parameters among men from an infertility clinic. Human Reproduction, July 24, 2008 DOI: 10.1093/humrep/den243

Source